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A Tale of Two Halls of Fame


19 January 2007

The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and the Baseball Hall of Fame gained new members last week.

CAL RIPKEN JR. and TONY GWYNN must feel extremely proud for being formally recognized as among the sport’s very best.

It’s less clear what rock’s newest inductees—GRANDMASTER FLASH AND THE FURIOUS FIVE, R.E.M, THE RONETTES, PATTI SMITH and VAN HALEN —are feeling when you consider that they’ll be joining the ranks of TRAFFIC and THE EAGLES while seminal acts like IGGY POP, LOVE, THE DAMNED, THE MC5 and THE NEW YORK DOLLS remain excluded. (Fellow BT blogger John Davidson offered some thoughts on the hall last year.)

The hall’s Web site states that “criteria include the influence and significance of the artist’s contributions to the development and perpetuation of rock and roll.”

Granted, this is a somewhat subjective endeavor but can’t we generally agree that certain artists truly are influential and significant?

Well, maybe more patience is needed. Truly deserving artists should eventually be recognized as such and be inducted. Right?

Maybe not.

The hall’s site: “The Foundation’s nominating committee, composed of rock and roll historians, selects nominees each year in the Performer category. Ballots are then sent to an international voting body of about 1,000 rock experts. Those performers who receive the highest number of votes, and more than 50 percent of the vote, are inducted.”

What this means is that if the voting body wanted to elect someone that the nominating committee did not approve of it couldn’t.

It also means that if the nominating committee wanted to exclude an artist from the hall for any reason whatsoever all it would have to do is omit the artist from the ballot it sends to the voting body.

Put simply, the vote is a farce.

Instead, the voting body or nominating committee (or both together) should be able to vote for anyone. And all results should be made public as is the case with baseball, where members of the Baseball Writer’s Association of America select anyone they damn please.

Rock’s power players love to peddle iconography associated with freedom, rebellion and anti-establishment thinking to help sell music, concert tickets and paraphernalia.

But when it comes time to selecting members for the hall, cloak-and-dagger machinations rule the day.

But hey, it’s only rock and roll.


2007 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Voting Results
Candidate Votes % of Votes
Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five ? ?
R.E.M. ? ?
The Ronettes ? ?
Patti Smith ? ?
Van Halen ? ?


2007 Baseball Writer’s Association of America Hall of Fame Voting Results
Candidate Votes % of Votes
Cal Ripken Jr. 537 98.5
Tony Gwynn 532 97.6
Rich Gossage 388 71.2
Jim Rice 346 63.5
Andre Dawson 309 56.7
Bert Blyleven 260 47.7
Lee Smith 217 39.8
Jack Morris 202 37.1
Mark McGwire 128 23.5
Tommy John 125 22.9
Steve Garvey 115 21.1
Dave Concepcion 74 13.6
Alan Trammell 73 13.4
Dave Parker 62 11.4
Don Mattingly 54 9.9
Dale Murphy 50 9.2
Harold Baines 29 5.3
Orel Hershiser 24 4.4
Albert Belle 19 3.5
Paul O’Neill 12 2.2
Bret Saberhagen 7 1.3
Jose Canseco 6 1.1
Tony Fernandez 4 0.7
Dante Buchette 3 0.6
Eric Davis 3 0.6
Bobby Bonilla 2 0.4
Ken Caminiti 2 0.4
Jay Buhner 1 0.2
Scott Brosius 0 0
Wally Joyner 0 0
Devon White 0 0
Bobby Witt 0 0

Filed under music industry business

Comments

Hi Greg – That’s strange. I remember reading a Billboard mag article last year saying that indeed The Stooges WERE going to be inducted along with the rest you mentioned. Wonder what happened there?

The RockHall voting has ALWAYS been a little messed up. How in the heck could Earth, Wind & Fire get in there BEFORE NY Dolls? Are they STILL that scared of them?

But hey people HAVE protested before. Over a thousand KISS fans protested outside the RockHall last year. You’re right about the voting body – they should be able to vote how they please and the votes count results should be public. But I’ll go further than that and say they should AT LEAST have 2 induction ceremonies a year. There are far too many artists & groups out there who aren’t getting any younger and shouldn’t have to wait another 10 years that deserve an official spotlight before it gets too late if you know what I mean.

Still it should be an interesting jam session at the end of this induction. Eddie Van Halen and Peter Buck (hey even just Stipe & Roth on the same stage) alone should be hilarious (or perhaps at least as funny as Black Sabbath and Blondie last year:) Wonder what they’ll play?


— Chris Lark    2007-01-20 02:50    #

Hi Chris.
Fans of every stripe will inevitably be disappointed with the Hall. It’s certainly true that it can’t please everyone. But by at least by being transparent and accountable, the Hall would instill confidence in people. As the system exists now, the results resemble a lottery more than a tally of anything quantifiable.

Your idea about having at least two inductions per year is sensible but I could see the Hall thinking that more frequent inductions would water down the event’s importance and associated buzz.

The Hall could also make bands wait say 20 years from when their first record was made instead of 25 as is currently the case. This would enable more musicians to be inducted while they are still alive since far too many leave this planet prematurely due to lifestyles that the surgeon general would frown upon.


Greg Bartalos    2007-01-22 17:30    #

Hi Chris,
Not to sound nihilistic or, even worse, punk, but why does it really matter? Black Sabbath wasn’t admitted entry for a long while. I doubt many Sabbath shed any tears. Likewise, now that I know Traffic is in, my love for them hasn’t expanded any more than my love for Jethro Tull did when they won that inaugural Heavy Metal Grammy in 1987. All sorts of artists you love and hate get remembered for the right and wrong reasons and they sometimes get official credit and they sometimes don’t. Them’s the breaks. Can you imagine a Painting Hall of Fame? Who among the people who actually love and experience this stuff is really affected by it and who really cares? And if there are some artists that continue to be neglected, well then, that just gives us all more material for our next articles.


Ari Abramowitz    2007-01-23 00:17    #

Oh boy, wow, money and politics has a lot to do with something as big as the rock-n-roll hall of fame? Golly gee, what a surprise!


Peter Hustedt    2007-01-23 06:14    #

I agree with Ari. Ultimately it’s meaningless to me and to any real music fans as inevitably there will be a lot of exclusions (and inclusions) for political reasons that have nothing to do with the quality or impact of an artist’s music. It’s not nihilistic but more realistic. With that said, I must point out that Jethro Tull won that inaugural Heavy Metal Grammy (infamously beating out Metallica) in 1989, not 1987.


Matt Berlyant    2007-01-23 13:47    #

Golly gee Peter, how is then that baseball, which also is a giant business, manages to have total transparency in its voting? Using your standard of accountability, the baseball Hall of Fame should make all its voting secret. Right? I mean it’s a big business after all.


Greg Bartalos    2007-01-23 14:23    #

Matt and Ari,

When you ask why anyone should “care” about this subject, keep in mind that caring can mean vastly different things. It can describe someone obsessed with an all consuming mission that preoccupies every waking moment. It can also mean that someone simply cares enough to chime in on a given topic.

Like you, my affection for my favorite music isn’t influenced in the least bit by whether or not the Hall formally recognizes it. And up until this year’s results were announced, I never paid much attention to who got in and who didn’t. I simply heard the news and went on with things. But when I learned this year how selections are made I felt compelled to chime in.


Greg Bartalos    2007-01-23 15:48    #

that a band who created perhaps the greatest rock album of all time, (definitely in the top 5)is not in the R&R hall of fame is unconscionable.
that lesser bands (eagles, van halen)
are inducted makes it even more disgusting.’love’ should be in the R&R
hall of fame and “forever changes” should be the vehicle that drives them there.
btw, anyone who truly loves adventurous music, the kind that challenges you, should , by all means,
avoid watching the grammy awards.
rewarding mediocrity is never a good thing. unfortunately, for the most part,this country bows to mediocrity.
instead of the lame “grammies” how about you guys giving out “the big takeover”awards?


— ed higgins    2007-02-06 12:08    #

Hi Ed.

I am 100% with you about Love. FC is indeed one of rock’s greatest records. A true work of genius that was primarily written by Arthur Lee at the wee age of 22!

And indeed, a “Big Takeover” awards event sounds more fresh and interesting than the almost half-century running Granny… scratch that— Grammy.


Greg Bartalos    2007-02-06 21:00    #

hi greg,

to continue on with this r&r hall of fame discussion, here are a few more artists, imo, who should be voted in:
nick lowe,graham parker,the move,xtc,
the pretty things,elo,wanda jackson,and darlene love.non-performers
should include jimmy webb and joe meek.as an early influence i would include frankie laine.
kiss should never be inducted, they exemplify everything that is bad about r&r. “beth” is one of the worst songs ever put on tape.


— ed higgins    2007-02-07 14:26    #

i can’t believe i left off the following artists who should be
inducted:pat boone, paul anca, paula abdul; hold on i’m only kidding. but seriously, these following artists should be in the hall of fame:
the buzzcocks, warren zevon, paul revere and the raiders and lou reed.
they’ve already lowered the bar with the inclusion of aerosmith, ac/dc, bob seger, and the eagles.
the buzzcocks are much better than the sex pistols.


— ed higgins    2007-02-07 18:34    #

Hi Ed,

I’d bet that the Buzzcocks and Lou Reed will get in. XTC may make it too.

Thanks for writing.


Greg Bartalos    2007-02-07 18:39    #